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English FORUM => Legal and Financial => : admin March 07, 2012, 10:11:31 AM

: 90 days report by mail in Korat is possible
: admin March 07, 2012, 10:11:31 AM
I received that email and I confirmed the identity of the person. He wrote to me:

\"It is possible to do the 90 days reporting via mail to Korat Immigration.  Last time I did it was last month. No problem at all,  bar codes or no bar codes.
They don\'t let everyone do it, but it is possible.\"

I would suggest everyone to do it by mail. IT IS IN THE LAW.

I am still waiting to communicate with the foreigner married to a lady at the immigration in Dan Kwian. If you know him, please send me his name and I will not tell who gave me his info. I have things to tell him and we can discuss intelligently and politely. He needs to know few things that I know...
: Re: 90 days report by mail in Korat is possible
: sharK March 07, 2012, 02:20:49 PM
I did it just over 1 month ago by sending copy of passport etc to Bangkok and declaring my address in Korat and it was accepted. You mean the docs should be mailed to a different address than the one below?

90 DAYS REGISTRATION,
IMMIGRATION DIVISION 1
120 MOO 3, CHAENGWATTANA ROAD,SOI 7,
LAKSI, BANGKOK. 10210

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=90days
: Re: 90 days report by mail in Korat is possible
: admin March 07, 2012, 02:58:05 PM
The person I mentioned sent his 90 days to Dan Kwian, to the address on their business card.

Now, Mr Shark, I met you and do not want to discuss private matters here. But you should know that they modified the regulation few years ago and MUST apply for 90 days WHERE YOU LIVE. And if you have work permit here... making it in Bangkok could make you a problem in the future. If you have a ta bian ban here, same.

I believe you are just coming from abroad. Your 90 days starts not on the date they put on a paper, but if you go abroad, 90 days after you are BACK IN THE COUNTRY...with a window of 7 days before or 7 days after to apply.

That is even written on the immigration website, if I remember. It was before (the 7 days window).

This is the official website of immigration SAYING YOU CAN DO IT IN ALL IMMIGRATION OFFICE BY MAIL.

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=90days

I will do it by mail. To show Dan Kwian that they are not above the law.
: Re: 90 days report by mail in Korat is possible
: barryofthailand March 08, 2012, 02:44:42 AM
You are correct. The police order governing the Immigration laws in Thailand says you can do it. But every Immigration office including region 4 headquarters which is located in korat for all of Issan has the lee  way to do what ever they want, and if they deem to be too busy to do the 90 day by mail they can refuse it.
Barry
: Re: 90 days report by mail in Korat is possible
: buadhai March 08, 2012, 02:59:20 AM
: \"barryofthailand\" post=4371
if they deem to be too busy to do the 90 day by mail they can refuse it.
Barry


This is just plain stupid. In what world does it take longer to deal with a mailed-in piece of paper than to deal with a person who walks in carrying that same piece of paper?

I spent an entire career working for the government. My goal was always to keep people out of the office, and have them do their business by phone, fax mail or email, rather than forcing them to come in.

It defies common sense.

But, wait, TIT!
: Re: 90 days report by mail in Korat is possible
: admin March 29, 2012, 07:32:19 PM

I was very busy the last days, also business trips to udon and others.
I didn't have time to post something clear about 90 by mail.
But I am confirming that Dan Kwian, and I spoke to Udomlak, the lady in chief at Dan Kwian that to can send 90 by mail.

They do no like it, but they will accept. It is the law, unless their boss change a directive or something.

This is why they do not like by mail:

A) they are afraid that your passport must be lost by mail. I told them that EMS has a tracking device.
B) you must pay the money to send back your passport. How does it cost? I do not know. I would guess 100 baht is enough, I would include my phone number if there is a problem.
C) you must send your original passport, because they scan it o their machine.


So, when you do 90 days by mail,
A) Send your application form filled.
B) Send your original passport, used EMS (registered mail) so it is not lost.
C) respect delays, think mail will take about 2 days? If not, there are fines.
D) I would include your information, return addreess, phone number so if there is a problem, they can call you. When you do that, keep a copy. If they tell you they didn't have info, you have a proof, a picture, a witness, anything.
E) you must send money for the return of mail. I would suggest 100 baht. I do not know if this is the real price. There is no indication in the law or anywhere about that.

I don't know what is the mail price that you have to pay for Bangkok? But Dan kwian ask me the money for the return mail.

I think I am not forgetting something but I might.

I recorded my conversation and will upload soon in Internet. This is not gossip or hearsay.
I talked to the lady in charged, she confirmed, I have a witness (I was with my wife who is fluent Thai and English) and I recorded the conversation.

Just before that, another employee told me it was impossible. I also have this on tape.
And I told ms Udonlak to inform her staff that it was possible.
I didn't want to create waves, but I wanted things to be clear and the same for each of us.

Now, it is clear.
But if they lose your passport in the mail because of X reason, Dan kwian does not want to be responsible. That was also clear from them. This is why they prefer to go in person.
But I told them some people living in buriram are 200 km away, or some others are sick, etc.
You can also send a third party, not you, by law, to do your 90 days.

Check the immigration website of thai government, it is all written.
In Thai and English, for ALL immigration offices.  ;)


: Re: 90 days report by mail in Korat is possible
: livram April 09, 2012, 04:45:50 PM
Last year I did the 90 day report by mail via Dan Kwian. Then they advised they would no longer accept 90 day reports by mail.

But when I did the 90 report by mail I did not mail the ORIGINAL passport but only sent a COPY. This is the first I have heard of any Imm office requiring the original passport. In fact, since they do not stamp the passport itself a copy should be fine. Why would they need the original?

BTW, when I did the 90 day report by mail I sent everything EMS and had no trouble at all. Much easier then driving all the way to Dan Kwian.
: Re: 90 days report by mail in Korat is possible
: admin April 09, 2012, 05:54:13 PM

I am sure that we can do 90 days in Dan Kwian by mail for the following reasons:

1) It's in the law. Not only that, on the immigration website, look here at #3:
http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=90days (http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=90days)

2) Because I asked the officers last month in Dan Kwian. 2 told me NO. You can not. I showed them the link. They said no again. After I asked her names (the 2 ladies) they referred me to their boss!! (Udomrak). She confirmed that it can be done, unless her new boss changed the policy and if so, she would try to send me the notification.

3) Not only the boss of this place  (MS Udonrak) told me it was possible, but she did it in front of a witness (my wife) and all the conversations were recorded (even with the 2 previous ladies saying no). And I told them. I hate doing that but I wanted to teach them a lesson. They work there, they should know the law and the law applies to everyone.

I will try to upload the conversation in next 2 days. I am busy now, and must cut some parts because it was long... It is very clear on the conversation.

4) Not only it's the law, not only the boss told us yes, not only I can confirm by witnesses and tape, but a client of mine does it! They asked me the name at immigration but of course this is confidential and I didn't tell them.

The reason they told me you can not is that:

a) They must scan original.
b) They are afraid to lose original in the mail

One thing is true: They do have scanners now and they scan passport.
A photocopy might not be enough.
But I DO NOT KNOW WHAT HAPPENS IN OTHER PROVINCES.

I told them it's done by registered mail, (EMS) and can be tracked.
They said if lost, they would not be responsible. And they added you must put MONEY in the envelope for the return of the passport. This, I don't know. How much? I Presume EMS is about 50 baht so I would put 100.

This is Thailand, you are never sure of what can be done and how it works!

I just know that for some people, it will be GREAT to make this by mail. So, this is why I made this inquiry and did recorded conversation.

Remember that since about FEB 2008 (I can't remember exactly) you must apply LOCALLY for your extension, re-entry, etc. So, I believe 90 days applies to that. There was a police order on that.
So, not sure you can send your documents in Bangkok, if you have work permit or live in Korat.
But again, TIT.

Anyway, I will try to do it by mail next time. Just to check. I will make a report here, with pictures, timetable, everything! It can be done. When you listen to the 2 ladies before, working there for many years, YOU CAN NOT DO IN DAN KWIAN. Well... I would bet a beer with anyone that it can be done!

: Re: 90 days report by mail in Korat is possible
: admin April 18, 2012, 07:22:52 AM
I promised to post the recording here of the conversation I had in Dan Kwian. Here it is. It was longer than I thought, I had to edit and it is in 4 parts.

The conversation is 7 minutes 30 seconds.

Part 1 is between 0 and 1:45.
         I talked with 2 immigration officers, 2 ladies.
         Listen carefully at 12 seconds when 1 says we can NOT do by mail.
         This lady at 20 seconds says SHE KNOWS EVERYTHING ABOUT 90 DAYS
         And they speak good English.
         At 45 second, you hear MAI DAI from the second lady. And at 55 seconds she says SHE IS SURE.
         Because they can't scan by computer. Even if I show them this website:

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=90days (http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=90days)

Now, there are 2 sections 3. First one says:
3.  The foreigner makes the notification by registered mail.

And second part says where you can do it:
3. Immigration offices throughout the country

But I was showing them THE THAI WEBSITE, with the same information:
http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/base.php?page=90days (http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/base.php?page=90days)

I must explain. I was using a phone with Internet, showing them the official website of immigration in Thai. With my wife beside as witness. And at the same time I was showing them with the phone, the phone was recording!  :)

Listen at 1:40 when after saying I can not do by mail, I ask her name, she speaks VERY WELL IN ENGLISH and she does not give me her name and ask me to talk to her boss. So, this is part 2 to the end.

Part 2

From 1:50 to the end, I speak with Udonrak, the person who is the "sub-boss" at she mentions at 2:15 and her name is at 2:19.

I deleted part 3 from 2:20 to 2:36 because it had private information.

I also deleted part 4 from 5:16 to 5:55 because it also had private information. I told them, for example that I had a client who did it. She asked me who? of course I didn't tell them.

At 3:30 second, when I speak about section 3, it's the "Immigration offices throughout the country" meaning it applies to Dan Kwian.

Look at 3:50 when I ask when the 2 ladies, while working here, do not know? She starts to speak Thai... my wife is the one translating at 3:50 and after in English. My wife does NOT work at our office and is NOT a translator. But she speaks fluent Thai and English.

at 4:45-4:50, they clearly says that YOU MUST SEND ORIGINAL. No copies.

And at 6:10, they say that there are no guarantee, they are scared to lose documents in the mail.

But I make a kind of summary at 6:55 saying that now it is clear:

1) We can do by mail
2) We must send original passport
3) We must send by register mail (EMS)
4) We must pay the registered mail to go back (put 100 baht, it's enough). Verify when you pay but I would guess it's 50 baht.
5) I forgot that obviously, you must fill the form of 90 days and sign it.

It's TM47, I believe, here:

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=download (http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=download)

Count on me, I will try by mail next time! But it will be around end of May.

Where is the recording?

Here:

http://thailawonline.com/images/documents/immigration%20Korat%2090%20days.m4a (http://thailawonline.com/images/documents/immigration%20Korat%2090%20days.m4a)

: Re: 90 days report by mail in Korat is possible
: wasagabob April 18, 2012, 07:57:27 AM
Sebastien

Thank you very much for that clarification.

Just wanted to make a couple of points ...

1) At first I think the pretty lady on front desk was confused because I thought I heard her say you cannot do by "e mail" . You and I know that you cannot do that but some farangs may be dumb enough to think they can. Listen to it and I think I heard her say at one point ... e mail. Maybe I defend her because she is pretty .. hahaha

2) I know the points you are trying to make ... especially equal application of the law .. but I think this tells much more about the "fat cat superiors" in Immigration rather than the front line workers. If changes are implemented in the law or in procedures, normally the "company" will have seminars or training sessions to make certain that the people who need to know are trained. Obviously, this has not happened in the case of the Immigration Department. I just wonder how many other examples there are that we have not uncovered as yet.

I will continue to go to Dan Kwian -- today in fact for my 90 day -- but I know there are people in the hinterlands that will be very appreciative of your investigation and training of the staff there.

I still do not understand why we must fill out the TM47 once we are updated on computer but I will ask today .. maybe take my wife this time to translate for me.

Bob

 
: Re: 90 days report by mail in Korat is possible
: admin April 18, 2012, 09:37:29 AM
1) At first I think the pretty lady on front desk was confused because I thought I heard her say you cannot do by "e mail" .

Do not worry. She was NOT CONFUSED AT ALL. I showed her the text in THAI. And I repeated and repeated BY MAIL. Not only that. My wife was there, it was showed to them the text in Thai and explained....

2) I know the points you are trying to make ... especially equal application of the law .. but I think this tells much more about the "fat cat superiors" in Immigration rather than the front line workers. If changes are implemented in the law or in procedures, normally the "company" will have seminars or training sessions to make certain that the people who need to know are trained. Obviously, this has not happened in the case of the Immigration Department. I just wonder how many other examples there are that we have not uncovered as yet.

Yes, it's a question of equality under the law and stop the arbitrary powers.  I am not trying to make things worse...I am trying to make them better.
Anyway, for me, case is closed until the changed the process by some directives or the law. The problem of Thailand is this eternal "status quo".
[/quote]

I still do not understand why we must fill out the TM47 once we are updated on computer but I will ask today .. maybe take my wife this time to translate for me.

Last time I went for 90 days (but that was many months ago (as I left the country in between) I didn't have to fill the form. It was all in the computer.
: Re: 90 days report by mail in Korat is possible
: wasagabob April 18, 2012, 12:28:36 PM
I just got back from 90 day reporting. I went with TM 47 filled out as I always do and asked the guy if I needed to fill in the form next time because it is all in computer and he said .. No. Just to confirm as i was leaving, I repeated it again ... I do not need to fill in form and he said no .. just address .... ??? typical Thai answer.
Next time I go, in July , I will take address written out on a piece of paper and see what happens.
: Re: 90 days report by mail in Korat is possible
: admin May 31, 2012, 06:59:32 PM

Immigration changed his website and now they have a CLEAR POLICY about 90 days by mail. This is taken from their website. See the link below:

=====================

Notification of staying in the Kingdom over 90 days

Procedure and notification

The foreigner makes the notification in person, or
The foreigner authorises another person to make the notification, or
The foreigner makes the notification by registered mail.
The notification must be made within 15 days before or after 7 days the period of 90 days expires.
The first application for extension of stay by the foreigner is equivalent to the notification of staying in the Kingdom over 90 days.

Offices accepting notification:

Immigration offices throughout the country

For foreigners who residing in Bangkok contact at Immigration Division1 Office, Chalermprakiat Government Complex,Chaengwattana Rd., Laksi ,Bangkok

For foreigners carrying out duties relating to the specific law : Immigration Act , Proleum Act / Board of Investment Act / Industrial Estate Authority of Thailand Act. contact at sub-division 3 Visa extension units, Chamchuree Square Building, Floor 18 , Phatumwan, Bangkok.
For special Labor of three Nationalities Loas , Cambodia and Mynmar residing in Bangkok contact at Immigration Division1 , Soi SuaPlu , Satorn Rd.

Notification by registered mail

Photocopy of passport pages with following pages
- front page showing name / surname / Passport No., ect.
- current visa
- last entry stamp of immigration
- last extension of visa

Photocopy of departure card TM.6 click to view Example TM.6 card

Previous notifications of staying over 90 days (if any) click to view Example document

Completely filled in and signed notification form TM.47 click to view Example document (Don't forget to sign name.)

Envelope with 10 Baht stamp affixed and return address of foreigner for the officer in charge to send back the lower part of form TM. 47 after having received the notification. This part must be kept for reference and for future notifications of staying over 90 days.

The above mentioned documents must be sent by registered mail and the receipt of the registration kept by the foreigner.

Send the mail before the renewal date 15 days to Immigration office
Notice :
- Your registered mail must be sent to the Immigration office at least 15 days before the due date of notification.
- Your new form will be stamped as of the expiration date of your old receipt.
- Please keep your receipt of your registered mail in case of lost mail.
- Your document can not be processed if you have passed the 90 days limit. ( You must come to the nearest immigration office or Immigration Division 1 in person to pay fine 2,000 Baht)
- Waiting for reply mail over 1 month, please contact Immigration Office with your registered mail receipt.

Note

The notification of staying in the Kingdom over 90 days is in no way equivalent to a visa extension.
If a foreigner staying in the kingdom over 90 days without notifying the Immigration Bureau or notifying the Immigration Bureau later than the set period, a fine of 2,000.- Baht will be collected. If a foreigner who did not make the notification of staying over 90 days is arrested, he will be fined 4,000.- Baht.
If a foreigner leaves the country and re-enters, the day count starts at 1 in every case.

==================

Source:
http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=90days (http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=90days)

: Re: 90 days report by mail in Korat is possible
: admin December 29, 2012, 02:42:19 PM

I did my 90 days report this Wednesday. It went very fast, early in morning.
But they changed the rules AGAIN. Before, you had to fill up the form TM47

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/download/pdf/tm47.pdf (http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/download/pdf/tm47.pdf)

Few months ago they computerized that and we didn't have to fill the form. And now, in Korat, they are asking back to fill the form! But the staff was very nice and police.

2 guys were working there. It used to be more ladies... It was actually a man who was making the 90 days report on that day.

: Re: 90 days report by mail in Korat is possible
: misterpaul January 17, 2013, 04:23:30 PM
I am confused. I recently went to Cambodia and according to the law (shown on this discussion page) my 90 day count starts from 1 again on my return, however my 90 day reporting date was not changed by immigration. Do I need to report as originally detailed or do I  make my own 90 count.
: Re: 90 days report by mail in Korat is possible
: wasagabob January 17, 2013, 05:02:01 PM
assuming you got a proper re-entry visa before you left , I think you need to report on the date stamped on your last 90 day report ... at least that s what I do and never had a problem.
: Re: 90 days report by mail in Korat is possible
: misterpaul January 17, 2013, 10:13:28 PM
wasagabob thanks for your reply.

I had a legitimate re-entry permit and stayed out of the country until after my reporting date, so logically I would hope that the clock starts ticking again when I returned to Thailand, otherwise why get the permit. I will call immigration tomorrow for clarification, hopefully I will avoid a fine.

This was the first time I have left since I got a retirement visa which is why I may be a bit naive.
: Re: 90 days report by mail in Korat is possible
: admin January 18, 2013, 09:43:09 PM

The 90 days report is for 90 days in the COUNTRY. It always starts at 1 when you go out and come back in.

Now, they used to NOT change the date of the 90 days on the paper. But legally, it starts at 1 when you re-entered the country. I have a client who NEVER stay 2 weeks in Thailand. He travels all around the world but have a business here, a work permit and a 1 extension each year. Business visa. Because he never stays 90 days, he NEVER has to do his 90 days. But every year, he had to do his extension.

This week, for the first time, I saw that the entry at Poipet put a new document to change the date of your 90 days into your passport. I took a picture and will post it this weekend. I had a very busy week, didn't have to do it. But 100% sure, your 90 days starts back EACH TIME you go out. And if you go out and do not have multiple entry or re-entry permit, you LOSE you visa or extension.

Look here:
http://immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=90days (http://immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=90days)

in the NOTE section at the end:

"If a foreigner leaves the country and re-enters, the day count starts at 1 in every case."

This is clear. And always been clear. But they do NOT change your date into your 90 days paper...before. Now, it seems they started to add a NEW paper in SOME places like Poipet. Never seen that before this week....

: Re: 90 days report by mail in Korat is possible
: admin January 19, 2013, 05:09:33 PM

This is what I was talking about. I NEVER SEEN THAT BEFORE IN MY PASSPORT, I travel a lot, and in ANY passport of any client. BOTH documents were in the SAME PASSPORT.

1) That is HIS ORIGNAL 90 days notice:

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8220/8394861514_0550ac2b34_o.jpg)

2) But he went to Cambodia and came back by Poipet. And this is what they put in his passport, over his entry card:

(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8514/8393777921_ff0e707dae_o.jpg)

I think this is CLEVER. Now, he does not have to go for 90 days on 30 December (what he was supposed to do) but his document still shows 30 December, but only in 17 March 2013 because he came back on 18 December 2012. It is all written.... I liked that they put a new paper. Never seen it before. But maybe they did it. But I went 3 or 4 times in Cambodia through Poipet or by place (Bangkok-Phnom Penh) and never had that paper changing my 90 days...